Cold Start noise - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forumslove car

post #1 of 30 Old 12-21-2017, 12:03 PM Thread Starter

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Cold Start noise


Hi all, so I did my 1st oil change few weeks back. I use Amsoil XL 0W20 and their Amsoil Filter. I noticed on cold starts it seems louder than before the oil change. I've been searching the forums and some say it's the filter? What are you guy's thought? Suggestions? Should I try different brand of oil? Different filter? The noise sounds like the oil pump needs to get oil into it or something. Or I've read others say it's the lifters?

Oh mine's the 2.5L 2AR-FE engine.


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post #2 of 30 Old 12-21-2017, 12:50 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by

Dimension C137 View Post

Hi all, so I did my 1st oil change few weeks back. I use Amsoil XL 0W20 and their Amsoil Filter. I noticed on cold starts it seems louder than before the oil change. I've been searching the forums and some say it's the filter? What are you guy's thought? Suggestions? Should I try different brand of oil? Different filter? The noise sounds like the oil pump needs to get oil into it or something. Or I've read others say it's the lifters?

Oh mine's the 2.5L 2AR-FE engine.

Are you able to record the noise and upload it to YouTube via a video, then share the link here?

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post #3 of 30 Old 12-21-2017, 01:08 PM Thread Starter

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I'd have to wait till end of day after work or tomorrow morning. Also not sure how well that will pick up the sound from my phone. I guess I could put the phone near the engine before I crank it.

There is an older thread on here with the Gen7 saying it's the VVT-i? It sounds similar to this, but maybe not quite as loud. There's a TSB but for the Gen 6.5?

Some say it's the hydraulic lifters and that it's normal?

Another user here suggested this

Here is a simple Q&A sequence that you can use to diagnose if you have a problem.

1) Does your car make a valve rattle noise upon start-up?

YES, but only after being parked for several hours (cold start-up) --> go to Q2

YES, always --> PROBLEM, have it checked

2) Does your car have hydraulic valve lifters?

NO --> PROBLEM, have it checked

YES --> go to Q3

3) Does the noise last for approx. 1 second or less?

NO, it lasts several second --> PROBLEM, have it checked

YES --> this is normal valve rattle with hydraulic valve lifters, nothing to worry about if it does not get worse with age

Quote:

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post #4 of 30 Old 12-21-2017, 04:52 PM

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If it sounds like the above, it's a cam gear rattle that has been relatively common with Toyota VVTi systems on the 2.5 and less so on the 1.8 and 3.5's. It can change sound a little bit with different oil viscosities when cold. You can have it repaired under a TSB, but unless it lasts longer than that, I wouldn't bother. Ours never went away even after 2 (3?) repair attempts.

post #5 of 30 Old 12-21-2017, 06:17 PM Thread Starter

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Quote:

If it sounds like the above, it's a cam gear rattle that has been relatively common with Toyota VVTi systems on the 2.5 and less so on the 1.8 and 3.5's. It can change sound a little bit with different oil viscosities when cold. You can have it repaired under a TSB, but unless it lasts longer than that, I wouldn't bother. Ours never went away even after 2 (3?) repair attempts.

So it's just noise issue? Shouldn't be any functional issues or excessive wear? When I Google the TSB in question in only covers Camry years up to 2012 or 13. The fix should have been applied to newer builds? Or was the TSB just case by case for the technician to follow should a customer bring it in for this specific issue? Until major design change to those engines?


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post #6 of 30 Old 12-21-2017, 11:21 PM

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Since we're talking about weird noises, my 17 SE with about 6k miles on it makes this weird loud wine after I first start it and it continues until the engine wanna up for about 1 and a half minutes. Been doing it since it was new (19 miles).

Ideas or sound I get a video of it making the noise too?

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post #7 of 30 Old 12-22-2017, 01:25 AM

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Always post a video of engine noises.

Some oil brands, filters, and grades can change engine noise.

So, during the next oil/filter change, change one variable and see what happens.

And, as always, make sure oil level is full and that you are not overdue on an oil change interval for your driving style. You have a time or mileage, whichever comes 1st requirement interval, along with severe or regular service intervals. Read the manual and use your dipstick.


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post #8 of 30 Old 12-22-2017, 02:12 PM Thread Starter

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That's partly why I was asking about the oil filter difference in a different thread. I was reading in some threads that said this seemed to affect the cold start noise. And wondering if I should just stick with OEM filter or Try the TRD filter. But looking at the TRD one vs the Amsoil they look identical. And the anti-drain back thing. That's the tube in the center of the cartridge correct? Why would one type of filter create cold start noise vs the other? Is the oil flow affected by the design? Does this affect the drain back?

Quote:

Originally Posted by

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Always post a video of engine noises.

Some oil brands, filters, and grades can change engine noise.

So, during the next oil/filter change, change one variable and see what happens.

And, as always, make sure oil level is full and that you are not overdue on an oil change interval for your driving style. You have a time or mileage, whichever comes 1st requirement interval, along with severe or regular service intervals. Read the manual and use your dipstick.


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post #9 of 30 Old 12-22-2017, 09:53 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by

Dimension C137 View Post

I'd have to wait till end of day after work or tomorrow morning. Also not sure how well that will pick up the sound from my phone. I guess I could put the phone near the engine before I crank it.

There is an older thread on here with the Gen7 saying it's the VVT-i? It sounds similar to this, but maybe not quite as loud. There's a TSB but for the Gen 6.5?

https://youtu.be/ZK3jEwMZoRc

Some say it's the hydraulic lifters and that it's normal?

Another user here suggested this

Here is a simple Q&A sequence that you can use to diagnose if you have a problem.

1) Does your car make a valve rattle noise upon start-up?

YES, but only after being parked for several hours (cold start-up) --> go to Q2

YES, always --> PROBLEM, have it checked

2) Does your car have hydraulic valve lifters?

NO --> PROBLEM, have it checked

YES --> go to Q3

3) Does the noise last for approx. 1 second or less?

NO, it lasts several second --> PROBLEM, have it checked

YES --> this is normal valve rattle with hydraulic valve lifters, nothing to worry about if it does not get worse with age

If your 2.5 sounds like the one in the video it may be the oil filter. While I had my 2009 Camry 2AZ-FE I used only Wix oil filters or AC Delco (yes they make filters for Toyotas) because many oil filters allow oil to drain out of the engine. It leads to a lack of oil right at startup when a car has been sitting for an extended amount of time. Try a better oil filter.

post #10 of 30 Old 12-22-2017, 11:57 PM

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If your engine sounds like the one in the video (a 1 second rattle) then it's completely normal - I know because I rent Camry's all the time at airports while on business trips plus I have my own 2015 4 cyl. The 2016's and 2017's are just as loud during the first second of start up as my 2015. If you want you can soften overall engine noise a tad by using a 5W-30 or 10W-30 oil. Oil filter makes no difference (the toyota oil and air filters have enabled some 2AR-FE owners to get over 300,000 miles of troublefree service).

Australian owners manuals say the 2AR-FE 4 cyl can use a wide range of viscosities ranging from 0W-20 to 15W-40. In the USA Toyota is forced to recommend 0W-20 for a political reason; i.e. the 2AR-FE's EPA certified fuel economy ratings were obtained with test cars running 0W-20 oil and 0W-20 is the viscosity that enables the engines to get a tad better fuel economy.

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post #11 of 30 Old 12-23-2017, 06:42 PM Thread Starter

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Cold Start video/audio


Here is the recording of the cold start. Don't mind the reversed video, I had to rotate it in the youtube editor. So it looks like Right hand drive haha.


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post #12 of 30 Old 12-24-2017, 08:26 AM

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Sounds normal.

I would skip the Amsoil oil filter next time and try OE or Fram Ultra.

On a canister filter, ADBV is the orange or black seal you see blocking the multiple oil holes. It prevents oil filter from draining empty. On a cartridge filter, if equipped, it's built into the filter mount/cover/housing/pump or engine block... I have replaced cartridge filter covers because of missing or bent pieces or filter cover noises. Plastic covers can also crack.

If the OE or Fram Ultra filter makes no difference, I would try a synth 5w30 to see if the oil film thickness masks it some.


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post #13 of 30 Old 12-24-2017, 11:20 PM

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Normal. Millions of 2AR-FE's are in service around the world. They all make that start up noise and no one has identified any problems it causes down the road.

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post #14 of 30 Old 12-25-2017, 05:16 PM

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Cold Start noise - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forumslove car

Yeah like most said, its normal. Im using Amsoil as well with purolator filter.


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post #15 of 30 Old 12-25-2017, 08:34 PM Thread Starter

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Thanks for all the replies. It does surprise me that it's that loud and normal.


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